Comments on: Dear PoP – Policy Activity Last Night (Friday) http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/ Welcome to the beautiful life Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:50:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: advent http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19171 advent Mon, 25 May 2009 22:01:37 +0000 http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19171 "Throw away the keys": I'm not going to engage in a digital shouting match with you, one because it's silly, and two because I don't think you're interested in listening. But I would like to respond, in case anyone reads this conversation who is genuinely interested in the questions that an event like a gang shooting poses. Here's what you said: "Trying to “understand” the psychic boo-boos that made somebody a criminal isn’t worth the effort. They’re lazy, ignorant, and mean. Who really cares how they got there? That does nothing to resolve the problem they present right now." This is the point where we disagree most deeply. I don't actually believe that there are any really great short-term solutions to the problem. And it seems that this is all you are interested in. Our incarceration rate is already the highest in the world and climbing. We spend $65 billion a year incarcerating people. That's $23,876 per criminal per year. That's a hell of a lot of money, with a theoretically limitless ceiling. I'm not saying we shouldn't send people to prison; I'm all for tough prison sentences and tough enforcement. BUT DON'T EXPECT IT TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. Why, how, could you or anyone possibly think that simply incarcerating everyone who looks threatening forever would solve the problem? There is a sick cycle that is producing criminals by the thousands, and it is NOT going away. I am talking about trying to actually reduce the cause of the problem--that is, alter the cycle that is producing so many criminals. You say, "who really cares how they got there?" Well, anyone who actually wants a just and peaceful city should care. To clarify my argument: Kids who are born into a parentless world lack love, acceptance, and identity. Free lunch, foodstamps, and every other program designed by the govt. to help poor people fails to provide the love and discipline that kids need. By the time they are 10 years old, they become dangerous because they are willing to do almost anything in order to gain the love and acceptance they have missed. Gangs offer one of the easiest ways for them to "belong" to something, so they often take that route. I'm just saying that if we want prevent children from becoming dangerous criminals, someone has to figure out a way to get into their world while they are still young and begin playing the role that a good parent would provide. Kids who are loved and disciplined by their parents don't need gang membership in order to have an identity when they hit adolescence. On a more personal note, maybe you should consider leaving DC if you are really so angry and so uninterested in long-term solutions. “Throw away the keys”:

I’m not going to engage in a digital shouting match with you, one because it’s silly, and two because I don’t think you’re interested in listening. But I would like to respond, in case anyone reads this conversation who is genuinely interested in the questions that an event like a gang shooting poses.

Here’s what you said:
“Trying to “understand” the psychic boo-boos that made somebody a criminal isn’t worth the effort. They’re lazy, ignorant, and mean. Who really cares how they got there? That does nothing to resolve the problem they present right now.”

This is the point where we disagree most deeply. I don’t actually believe that there are any really great short-term solutions to the problem. And it seems that this is all you are interested in. Our incarceration rate is already the highest in the world and climbing. We spend $65 billion a year incarcerating people. That’s $23,876 per criminal per year. That’s a hell of a lot of money, with a theoretically limitless ceiling.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t send people to prison; I’m all for tough prison sentences and tough enforcement. BUT DON’T EXPECT IT TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. Why, how, could you or anyone possibly think that simply incarcerating everyone who looks threatening forever would solve the problem? There is a sick cycle that is producing criminals by the thousands, and it is NOT going away.

I am talking about trying to actually reduce the cause of the problem–that is, alter the cycle that is producing so many criminals. You say, “who really cares how they got there?” Well, anyone who actually wants a just and peaceful city should care.

To clarify my argument: Kids who are born into a parentless world lack love, acceptance, and identity. Free lunch, foodstamps, and every other program designed by the govt. to help poor people fails to provide the love and discipline that kids need. By the time they are 10 years old, they become dangerous because they are willing to do almost anything in order to gain the love and acceptance they have missed. Gangs offer one of the easiest ways for them to “belong” to something, so they often take that route.

I’m just saying that if we want prevent children from becoming dangerous criminals, someone has to figure out a way to get into their world while they are still young and begin playing the role that a good parent would provide. Kids who are loved and disciplined by their parents don’t need gang membership in order to have an identity when they hit adolescence.

On a more personal note, maybe you should consider leaving DC if you are really so angry and so uninterested in long-term solutions.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19170 Anonymous Mon, 18 May 2009 23:51:26 +0000 http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19170 Giving "respect" to the 18-year-old thugs that are ruining this city? Are you on crack, Advent? Giving “respect” to the 18-year-old thugs that are ruining this city? Are you on crack, Advent?

]]> By: christopher http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19169 christopher Mon, 18 May 2009 20:51:39 +0000 http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19169 throw away the keys, nice! i hope that was as good for you as it was for the rest of us...damn i need a cigarette now :) throw away the keys,

nice!

i hope that was as good for you as it was for the rest of us…damn i need a cigarette now :)

]]> By: Throw Away the Keys http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19168 Throw Away the Keys Mon, 18 May 2009 20:37:25 +0000 http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19168 Advent, tougher punishment? Do you think the kid who has been riding his minibike up and down the alleys for the last week firing off his pistol really fears any punishment? First, he knows that M.P.D. has basically abdicated authority of the streets north of the tourist areas to the thugs like him. The chances he'll be caught are zero. He, like the rest of us, never sees M.P.D. and knows that the cowed population of scared old people and guilty white people ain't gonna do anything either. M.P.D. and Lanier are worthless. Robberies alone shot up 25% last year under her watch. They are the worst metropolitan police agency in the country - a national joke - and the joke's on you taxpayer. Spend a day in New York City and you'll wake up to what real policing means. Second, if he's under 17 he knows that he can rob and harass to his heart's content and he'll face no punishment even if he robs a donut shop and happens to get caught by the M.P.D. officers hiding in there. He'll be released right back into the environment that spawned his criminal butt. He knows full well that a kid in D.C. who has robbed and beaten someone is likely to be released within 48 hours to his "family". He'll be told by well-meaning social workers like you that he'd better behave and then the doors will swing open. Unless and until he finally kills someone and if (a very big "if") he gets caught he might be tried as an adult and even then he'll likely only get a few years. Trying to "understand" the psychic boo-boos that made somebody a criminal isn't worth the effort. They're lazy, ignorant, and mean. Who really cares how they got there? That does nothing to resolve the problem they present right now. You want to invest your time to help pump up the self-esteem of a population who already feels they can do whatever the hell they want whenever the hell they want and think THAT is the answer? Yeah right. If you look at the recidivism rates for violent criminals you can't argue those facts. If they are robbing people at 12 or 13 they are going to be killing people at 18. Spend your weekends painting rainbows with that crowd and you'll end up like the Spevaks with your throat cut and all of your equally clueless friends wondering how this ever could have happened. You might as well suggest we let the tigers out of the National Zoo and when they start eating people we'll just need to "understand" the big kitties better. These boys had a rough childhood? JOIN THE FRICKEN CLUB. Why don't you hand me your wallet Advent? I need it because my mommy dwin't wove me. Oh these little angels are sooooooo poor, but suspiciously have enough cash for an iPod, a cell phone, Roca Wear, Jordans, a gold watch, and a HUGE PISTOL. I'm cooking ramen noodles up counting my pennies while these "underprivileged" children get freebies at school, from WIC, foodstamps, and when they get a little peckish after a hard day robbing and beating people, they sure seem to keep about a thousand and one take-outs busy into the night. Grow up my friend. Ain't no criminal starving. He just takes and takes and takes - and your answer? WE ALL HAVE TO GIVE UP SOME MORE! HA! Isn't it interesting how all these poor young boys really just want to get out of this vicious cycle of poverty, but when they are arrested with $10K or $15K in their pockets, strangely enough, none of them have a college tuition receipt in their pocket with all that cash? I also love how spoiled rich people talk about how it "feels" to be a criminal and how it's only about "respect" et cetera. Save it for your novel, Pelecanos. Some people don't have to guess how criminals think since we've spent our entire careers in law enforcement dealing with them and their pathetic excuses. Their excuses are almost, but not quite, as childish as these wonderful schemes you namby-pamby and irrational social engineers think up. First of all, WHO CARES how criminals feel. Second, it's TOO LATE to do anything about somebody that is carrying a gun around and robbing people. Lock them up. Throw the keys away. Advent, tougher punishment? Do you think the kid who has been riding his minibike up and down the alleys for the last week firing off his pistol really fears any punishment? First, he knows that M.P.D. has basically abdicated authority of the streets north of the tourist areas to the thugs like him. The chances he’ll be caught are zero. He, like the rest of us, never sees M.P.D. and knows that the cowed population of scared old people and guilty white people ain’t gonna do anything either. M.P.D. and Lanier are worthless. Robberies alone shot up 25% last year under her watch. They are the worst metropolitan police agency in the country – a national joke – and the joke’s on you taxpayer. Spend a day in New York City and you’ll wake up to what real policing means. Second, if he’s under 17 he knows that he can rob and harass to his heart’s content and he’ll face no punishment even if he robs a donut shop and happens to get caught by the M.P.D. officers hiding in there. He’ll be released right back into the environment that spawned his criminal butt. He knows full well that a kid in D.C. who has robbed and beaten someone is likely to be released within 48 hours to his “family”. He’ll be told by well-meaning social workers like you that he’d better behave and then the doors will swing open. Unless and until he finally kills someone and if (a very big “if”) he gets caught he might be tried as an adult and even then he’ll likely only get a few years. Trying to “understand” the psychic boo-boos that made somebody a criminal isn’t worth the effort. They’re lazy, ignorant, and mean. Who really cares how they got there? That does nothing to resolve the problem they present right now. You want to invest your time to help pump up the self-esteem of a population who already feels they can do whatever the hell they want whenever the hell they want and think THAT is the answer? Yeah right. If you look at the recidivism rates for violent criminals you can’t argue those facts. If they are robbing people at 12 or 13 they are going to be killing people at 18. Spend your weekends painting rainbows with that crowd and you’ll end up like the Spevaks with your throat cut and all of your equally clueless friends wondering how this ever could have happened. You might as well suggest we let the tigers out of the National Zoo and when they start eating people we’ll just need to “understand” the big kitties better. These boys had a rough childhood? JOIN THE FRICKEN CLUB. Why don’t you hand me your wallet Advent? I need it because my mommy dwin’t wove me. Oh these little angels are sooooooo poor, but suspiciously have enough cash for an iPod, a cell phone, Roca Wear, Jordans, a gold watch, and a HUGE PISTOL. I’m cooking ramen noodles up counting my pennies while these “underprivileged” children get freebies at school, from WIC, foodstamps, and when they get a little peckish after a hard day robbing and beating people, they sure seem to keep about a thousand and one take-outs busy into the night. Grow up my friend. Ain’t no criminal starving. He just takes and takes and takes – and your answer? WE ALL HAVE TO GIVE UP SOME MORE! HA! Isn’t it interesting how all these poor young boys really just want to get out of this vicious cycle of poverty, but when they are arrested with $10K or $15K in their pockets, strangely enough, none of them have a college tuition receipt in their pocket with all that cash? I also love how spoiled rich people talk about how it “feels” to be a criminal and how it’s only about “respect” et cetera. Save it for your novel, Pelecanos. Some people don’t have to guess how criminals think since we’ve spent our entire careers in law enforcement dealing with them and their pathetic excuses. Their excuses are almost, but not quite, as childish as these wonderful schemes you namby-pamby and irrational social engineers think up. First of all, WHO CARES how criminals feel. Second, it’s TOO LATE to do anything about somebody that is carrying a gun around and robbing people. Lock them up. Throw the keys away.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19167 Anonymous Mon, 18 May 2009 17:12:49 +0000 http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19167 Advent: you are now part of the problem, not the solution. All this "everybody-just-needs-a-hug" liberal nonsense has been tried and failed miserably in DC for, what, 40 years now? Time for a different approach. Advent: you are now part of the problem, not the solution. All this “everybody-just-needs-a-hug” liberal nonsense has been tried and failed miserably in DC for, what, 40 years now? Time for a different approach.

]]> By: advent http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19166 advent Mon, 18 May 2009 16:31:12 +0000 http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19166 We (people who read this blog) want two things: justice and safety. The cry for Batman is a cry for those two things. Kids who are involved in gangs want an identity--love, acceptance, respect, purpose. They are not that different from you, actually. But they have fewer options of where to get those things. They don't have real parents and therefore lack love. This makes them more needy for acceptance and respect from their peers--needy enough to do just about anything for their approval, like carry a gun, kill, rob at gunpoint. And without a larger purpose for their lives (taught AND modeled by parents or parent-figures), they have no reason not to enter the cycle of drugs>violence>prison. Tougher prison sentences or tougher police enforcement is a banal approach to fixing this problem. Kids NEED an identity, and no punishment can be scary enough to remove that need from them. If gangbanger is the only identity available to them, they will take it no matter the cost. Batman, even though we can all identify with that desire for safety and justice, is at best a childish whim that betrays a laziness or despair about actually trying to solve the problem. The problem has its deepest root in the absence of family/parents/love. If you want to be a part of the solution (as a volunteer, or from a policy perspective), you need to start thinking about how to encourage, restore, or replace parents/family where they are broken or non-existent. I'm not offering clear, practical solutions. I'm just saying, don't waste your time or energy on other things--focus on families/parents/love. That's where the cycle begins. We (people who read this blog) want two things: justice and safety. The cry for Batman is a cry for those two things.

Kids who are involved in gangs want an identity–love, acceptance, respect, purpose. They are not that different from you, actually. But they have fewer options of where to get those things. They don’t have real parents and therefore lack love. This makes them more needy for acceptance and respect from their peers–needy enough to do just about anything for their approval, like carry a gun, kill, rob at gunpoint. And without a larger purpose for their lives (taught AND modeled by parents or parent-figures), they have no reason not to enter the cycle of drugs>violence>prison.

Tougher prison sentences or tougher police enforcement is a banal approach to fixing this problem. Kids NEED an identity, and no punishment can be scary enough to remove that need from them. If gangbanger is the only identity available to them, they will take it no matter the cost.

Batman, even though we can all identify with that desire for safety and justice, is at best a childish whim that betrays a laziness or despair about actually trying to solve the problem.

The problem has its deepest root in the absence of family/parents/love. If you want to be a part of the solution (as a volunteer, or from a policy perspective), you need to start thinking about how to encourage, restore, or replace parents/family where they are broken or non-existent.

I’m not offering clear, practical solutions. I’m just saying, don’t waste your time or energy on other things–focus on families/parents/love. That’s where the cycle begins.

]]> By: Nate http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19165 Nate Mon, 18 May 2009 13:33:24 +0000 http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19165 cupcake said: "I don’t know what scares me more idiots with guns or idiots with pit bulls." NEWSFLASH: They are one in the same people. Noone in their right mind owns a pitbull. Especially with kids. cupcake said:
“I don’t know what scares me more idiots with guns or idiots with pit bulls.”

NEWSFLASH: They are one in the same people. Noone in their right mind owns a pitbull. Especially with kids.

]]> By: cupcake http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19164 cupcake Mon, 18 May 2009 13:24:27 +0000 http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19164 I actually reported the shots at 12th and Delafield - it was more like 9 shots. That was my second 911 call of day - kept looking for the full moon. The first was when I heard a woman screaming for her life at around 2:00 in the afternoon. I ran down my alley, but didn't see anything - still the screaming. Then I saw a loose pit bull in Hamilton rec. Cops showed up a few seconds later - about 6 cars plus ambulanace and fire truck. Heard later on the radio that two women and a boy were taken to the hospital after a pit bull attack. I don't know what scares me more idiots with guns or idiots with pit bulls. I actually reported the shots at 12th and Delafield – it was more like 9 shots. That was my second 911 call of day – kept looking for the full moon. The first was when I heard a woman screaming for her life at around 2:00 in the afternoon. I ran down my alley, but didn’t see anything – still the screaming. Then I saw a loose pit bull in Hamilton rec. Cops showed up a few seconds later – about 6 cars plus ambulanace and fire truck. Heard later on the radio that two women and a boy were taken to the hospital after a pit bull attack.

I don’t know what scares me more idiots with guns or idiots with pit bulls.

]]> By: 2b3s http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19163 2b3s Mon, 18 May 2009 13:09:55 +0000 http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19163 Batman is a comic-book character. Vigilantism would only give MPD another problem to deal with. The only solution is long-term: ridding DC of the politicians whose only concerns are corporate development and securing reelection. Batman is a comic-book character. Vigilantism would only give MPD another problem to deal with. The only solution is long-term: ridding DC of the politicians whose only concerns are corporate development and securing reelection.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19162 Anonymous Mon, 18 May 2009 12:36:11 +0000 http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/05/dear-pop-policy-activity-last-night-friday/#comment-19162 I'm with the batman idea. Something that's enough to get these guys running scared. They know the police have to follow the laws - but someone who is more sociopathic than they are? Not afraid of any rules? Things would settle down. I’m with the batman idea. Something that’s enough to get these guys running scared. They know the police have to follow the laws – but someone who is more sociopathic than they are? Not afraid of any rules? Things would settle down.

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