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	<title>Comments on: Rebbie on Making Farmers Markets More Accessible (By Danny Harris)</title>
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	<link>http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/</link>
	<description>Welcome to the beautiful life</description>
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		<title>By: mapgirl</title>
		<link>http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138958</link>
		<dc:creator>mapgirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138958</guid>
		<description>@Mal - I shop the farmer&#039;s market by knowing what I think I would like to make, what looks fresh this week, and what I can realistically keep in the fridge/pantry. It&#039;s always a mix.

All the farmer&#039;s markets have free recipes, but the catch to improvising a meal is cooking a lot. You have build up your repetoire of recipes and some basic techniques by cooking and cooking some more. Learn to cook by watching Alton Brown and get a copy of the Joy of Cooking. Make what appeals to you and read up on food science and ingredients. (I rediscovered cornstarch this year and it&#039;s great for dessert making. Choco pudding! Fruit sauces!)
**
As far as the discussion about farmer&#039;s subsidies go, most of the subsidies given out by the Ag Dept are to large corporate farms designed to prop up the prices of feed lot corn (for meat animals), cotton, and wheat (Nifty 2004 chart here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidy#United_States). I don&#039;t think EBT/WIC is a subsidy to farmers as much as it is for people who are down on their luck and want to eat some veggies. Looking at the subsidy list, it&#039;s more like a junk food eater&#039;s paradise of chips fried in oil coated with sugar, honey and peanuts or cheese powder. Take your pick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mal &#8211; I shop the farmer&#8217;s market by knowing what I think I would like to make, what looks fresh this week, and what I can realistically keep in the fridge/pantry. It&#8217;s always a mix.</p>
<p>All the farmer&#8217;s markets have free recipes, but the catch to improvising a meal is cooking a lot. You have build up your repetoire of recipes and some basic techniques by cooking and cooking some more. Learn to cook by watching Alton Brown and get a copy of the Joy of Cooking. Make what appeals to you and read up on food science and ingredients. (I rediscovered cornstarch this year and it&#8217;s great for dessert making. Choco pudding! Fruit sauces!)<br />
**<br />
As far as the discussion about farmer&#8217;s subsidies go, most of the subsidies given out by the Ag Dept are to large corporate farms designed to prop up the prices of feed lot corn (for meat animals), cotton, and wheat (Nifty 2004 chart here: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidy#United_States" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidy#United_States</a>). I don&#8217;t think EBT/WIC is a subsidy to farmers as much as it is for people who are down on their luck and want to eat some veggies. Looking at the subsidy list, it&#8217;s more like a junk food eater&#8217;s paradise of chips fried in oil coated with sugar, honey and peanuts or cheese powder. Take your pick.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138957</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138957</guid>
		<description>Oops, Capital Market</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, Capital Market</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138956</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138956</guid>
		<description>Capitol Market just off Florida between 2nd and 5th is a great choice if you&#039;re looking for cheap produce.  I have no idea if they accept food stamps (there are like 30 separate vendors in several buildings), but it is definitely cheap, and open past noon as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Capitol Market just off Florida between 2nd and 5th is a great choice if you&#8217;re looking for cheap produce.  I have no idea if they accept food stamps (there are like 30 separate vendors in several buildings), but it is definitely cheap, and open past noon as well.</p>
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		<title>By: elizqueenmama</title>
		<link>http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138952</link>
		<dc:creator>elizqueenmama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138952</guid>
		<description>@mal  hmm. . . i suppose it is a bit tricky to get started on that front.  I think that at first, people tend to plan ahead and have a bit of a list of things ready (but be prepared to improvise if the exact things in your recipe are not available/too expensive!)  But what tends to happen after you&#039;ve been cooking for awhile is that you have end up with a few dozen &#039;standby&#039; recipes - then you can go to the store/market and find that hey! the cauliflower looks really great and cheap today!  so why don&#039;t i make the cauliflower mash that is so good. . . hmm. . . do I have butter?  yep! is there any beef or pork on sale? yep!  excellent!  that&#039;ll work!  And thus a seasonal meal is built.
But also, particularly if it is just you, be prepared to eat, for instance, green beans all week.  because they were fresh and cheap.  i shop for kids too, which is a whole &#039;nother ball of wax!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mal  hmm. . . i suppose it is a bit tricky to get started on that front.  I think that at first, people tend to plan ahead and have a bit of a list of things ready (but be prepared to improvise if the exact things in your recipe are not available/too expensive!)  But what tends to happen after you&#8217;ve been cooking for awhile is that you have end up with a few dozen &#8216;standby&#8217; recipes &#8211; then you can go to the store/market and find that hey! the cauliflower looks really great and cheap today!  so why don&#8217;t i make the cauliflower mash that is so good. . . hmm. . . do I have butter?  yep! is there any beef or pork on sale? yep!  excellent!  that&#8217;ll work!  And thus a seasonal meal is built.<br />
But also, particularly if it is just you, be prepared to eat, for instance, green beans all week.  because they were fresh and cheap.  i shop for kids too, which is a whole &#8216;nother ball of wax!</p>
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		<title>By: Neener</title>
		<link>http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138951</link>
		<dc:creator>Neener</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138951</guid>
		<description>I love this, as if we have never been to a farmer&#039;s market in farm country or are unaware that when Tuscarora drives down from Pennsylvania that we&#039;re paying for their gas.  We&#039;re all aware of this publius.

DCPublius, WIC food stamps are food stamps for the kids unlucky enough to be born to parents too dumb to get good jobs.  WIC is not for the parents necessarily, it&#039;s for the minor children:
http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/

If you think that the kids under 5 should be penalized for their parents&#039; bad, but not illegal, behavior then let me know.

I appreciate the years my parents refused to bail me out of a financial hole, but I had a job paying 3x the poverty rate.  What I needed to do was stop buying lunch at work- it doesn&#039;t benefit our society when people who are on the verge of becoming homeless, suddenly are and then break laws to keep above water.

---------

Regarding the dropsy comment, that was a joke.  The character was named Topsy.  While not out and out racist, the reaction to the character in the early 20th century was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this, as if we have never been to a farmer&#8217;s market in farm country or are unaware that when Tuscarora drives down from Pennsylvania that we&#8217;re paying for their gas.  We&#8217;re all aware of this publius.</p>
<p>DCPublius, WIC food stamps are food stamps for the kids unlucky enough to be born to parents too dumb to get good jobs.  WIC is not for the parents necessarily, it&#8217;s for the minor children:<br />
<a href="http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/" rel="nofollow">http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/</a></p>
<p>If you think that the kids under 5 should be penalized for their parents&#8217; bad, but not illegal, behavior then let me know.</p>
<p>I appreciate the years my parents refused to bail me out of a financial hole, but I had a job paying 3x the poverty rate.  What I needed to do was stop buying lunch at work- it doesn&#8217;t benefit our society when people who are on the verge of becoming homeless, suddenly are and then break laws to keep above water.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>Regarding the dropsy comment, that was a joke.  The character was named Topsy.  While not out and out racist, the reaction to the character in the early 20th century was.</p>
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		<title>By: dcpublius</title>
		<link>http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138950</link>
		<dc:creator>dcpublius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138950</guid>
		<description>Sorry, DC.  You don&#039;t know what a Farmer&#039;s Market is.  What you have here is a yuppie farmer&#039;s market with overpriced trinkets and foods that give people the illusion of being green and healthy.  What you don&#039;t realize is that a good chunk of the stuff you see in those rustic looking bins on the street is sourced from the same place as the stuff you see in the market.  Go to some rural areas and you will see what a Farmer&#039;s Market is and what the prices are.

People should not be receiving subsidies to increase the quality of their lifestyle.  If anything, they should be penalized so that they have an incentive to get off food stamps and out of free housing.  If I had it my way, food stamps would only be allowed on a very select core of healthy, cheap, and store brand foods like plain oatmeal, canned tuna, milk, etc.  If they want more in life, they can get off their behinds and work for it, like everybody else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, DC.  You don&#8217;t know what a Farmer&#8217;s Market is.  What you have here is a yuppie farmer&#8217;s market with overpriced trinkets and foods that give people the illusion of being green and healthy.  What you don&#8217;t realize is that a good chunk of the stuff you see in those rustic looking bins on the street is sourced from the same place as the stuff you see in the market.  Go to some rural areas and you will see what a Farmer&#8217;s Market is and what the prices are.</p>
<p>People should not be receiving subsidies to increase the quality of their lifestyle.  If anything, they should be penalized so that they have an incentive to get off food stamps and out of free housing.  If I had it my way, food stamps would only be allowed on a very select core of healthy, cheap, and store brand foods like plain oatmeal, canned tuna, milk, etc.  If they want more in life, they can get off their behinds and work for it, like everybody else.</p>
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		<title>By: Nichole</title>
		<link>http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138949</link>
		<dc:creator>Nichole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138949</guid>
		<description>I do a lot of my shopping at Eastern Market.  I would like to go to H Street or Dupont more often, but why must they close at noon on a weekend?  By the time I wake up, lounge about a bit, and have a cup of tea, they&#039;re closed.  I don&#039;t feel any urgency with Eastern Market only a couple of blocks away, but it&#039;d be nice to get out to other markets more often, but not at the expense of my weekend leisure.

I agree that you have to work really hard to find bargains though.  Eastern Market is definitely more expensive than Safeway and Harris Teeter, but I know the vendors and it also doesn&#039;t allow me to throw any random processed crap into my cart. (I eat fresh food like 90% of the time, but I&#039;m not ashamed to admit a fondness for processed crap.  Blue jello?  neat-o!)  The only random thing I leave EM w/ is an extra pork chop or something, rather than something processed and weird that I thought looked &quot;fun.&quot;

But, when I go to my dad&#039;s place up in PA, I go to the farm store and it&#039;s crazy cheap.  Last time I was there was tomato season, and with his senior citizen discount, I paid $16 for a huge box of tomatoes, and then another box filled with all kinds of fresh vegetables that they&#039;d picked that morning.

I think the issue in DC is that most - not all - but most farmer&#039;s markets DO cater to the yuppie/hippie/Whole Foods crowd.  There&#039;s a difference between a regular old farmer&#039;s market and the Freshfarm markets that are so abundant here (H St, Dupont, Penn Quarter, White House etc) that concentrate on organic fancy schmancy stuff.  You can get good cheap produce and meats at the Florida Ave. market, that&#039;re fresher than the grocery store, but wouldn&#039;t meet the standards of the Fresh Farm folks - but that&#039;s just regular food, not the local/organic/grassfed/etc stuff.  Same with most of the stuff at Eastern Market -the stuff that&#039;s just from regular farms can be a good deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do a lot of my shopping at Eastern Market.  I would like to go to H Street or Dupont more often, but why must they close at noon on a weekend?  By the time I wake up, lounge about a bit, and have a cup of tea, they&#8217;re closed.  I don&#8217;t feel any urgency with Eastern Market only a couple of blocks away, but it&#8217;d be nice to get out to other markets more often, but not at the expense of my weekend leisure.</p>
<p>I agree that you have to work really hard to find bargains though.  Eastern Market is definitely more expensive than Safeway and Harris Teeter, but I know the vendors and it also doesn&#8217;t allow me to throw any random processed crap into my cart. (I eat fresh food like 90% of the time, but I&#8217;m not ashamed to admit a fondness for processed crap.  Blue jello?  neat-o!)  The only random thing I leave EM w/ is an extra pork chop or something, rather than something processed and weird that I thought looked &#8220;fun.&#8221;</p>
<p>But, when I go to my dad&#8217;s place up in PA, I go to the farm store and it&#8217;s crazy cheap.  Last time I was there was tomato season, and with his senior citizen discount, I paid $16 for a huge box of tomatoes, and then another box filled with all kinds of fresh vegetables that they&#8217;d picked that morning.</p>
<p>I think the issue in DC is that most &#8211; not all &#8211; but most farmer&#8217;s markets DO cater to the yuppie/hippie/Whole Foods crowd.  There&#8217;s a difference between a regular old farmer&#8217;s market and the Freshfarm markets that are so abundant here (H St, Dupont, Penn Quarter, White House etc) that concentrate on organic fancy schmancy stuff.  You can get good cheap produce and meats at the Florida Ave. market, that&#8217;re fresher than the grocery store, but wouldn&#8217;t meet the standards of the Fresh Farm folks &#8211; but that&#8217;s just regular food, not the local/organic/grassfed/etc stuff.  Same with most of the stuff at Eastern Market -the stuff that&#8217;s just from regular farms can be a good deal.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138948</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138948</guid>
		<description>Warderite, the most public transit accessible costco in the US is right over at Pentagon City.  The issue there for lower income folks is the quantities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warderite, the most public transit accessible costco in the US is right over at Pentagon City.  The issue there for lower income folks is the quantities.</p>
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		<title>By: sb</title>
		<link>http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138947</link>
		<dc:creator>sb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138947</guid>
		<description>the Ward 8 farmers&#039; market is cheap--it&#039;s not much further from the Congress Heights metro than the Giant is (although in the other direction) and it cost about the same.  I imagine that in the years before the Giant opened, it was a real asset.

I agree with what most people are saying here--I&#039;ve tried a bunch of markets around the city, and if I shop carefully the produce isn&#039;t more expensive than grocery stores.  I don&#039;t really save any money, though.  And it&#039;s inconvenient to shop there and then go to a supermarket for dry goods.  Plus, I&#039;m ok with eating the same produce over and over (tomatoes in August, squash now).  I imagine that other people, both rich and poor, might be less willing to deal with these things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the Ward 8 farmers&#8217; market is cheap&#8211;it&#8217;s not much further from the Congress Heights metro than the Giant is (although in the other direction) and it cost about the same.  I imagine that in the years before the Giant opened, it was a real asset.</p>
<p>I agree with what most people are saying here&#8211;I&#8217;ve tried a bunch of markets around the city, and if I shop carefully the produce isn&#8217;t more expensive than grocery stores.  I don&#8217;t really save any money, though.  And it&#8217;s inconvenient to shop there and then go to a supermarket for dry goods.  Plus, I&#8217;m ok with eating the same produce over and over (tomatoes in August, squash now).  I imagine that other people, both rich and poor, might be less willing to deal with these things.</p>
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		<title>By: Warderite</title>
		<link>http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138946</link>
		<dc:creator>Warderite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.princeofpetworth.com/2009/11/rebbie-on-making-farmers-markets-more-accessible-by-danny-harris/#comment-138946</guid>
		<description>Neener, the farmer&#039;s markets may be more expensive than Costco, Shoppers or H. Mart, but how in the world do you get to those places? A car? If you can afford transportation out to Wheaton or Alexandria or wherever you&#039;re getting your bargain-basement food, you&#039;re already several steps ahead of a lot of us. Plus, when you factor in the cost of car payments, insurance, and gas, you&#039;re probably paying just as much anyway.

I have definitely found cheaper items at the markets (MtP is the one I usually hit) than  Giant and Safeway. Bestway is cheaper for certain things, but that&#039;s about it. I base this observation purely on stores that are accessible to those who do the vast majority of their shopping in Green Line country without the aid of a car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neener, the farmer&#8217;s markets may be more expensive than Costco, Shoppers or H. Mart, but how in the world do you get to those places? A car? If you can afford transportation out to Wheaton or Alexandria or wherever you&#8217;re getting your bargain-basement food, you&#8217;re already several steps ahead of a lot of us. Plus, when you factor in the cost of car payments, insurance, and gas, you&#8217;re probably paying just as much anyway.</p>
<p>I have definitely found cheaper items at the markets (MtP is the one I usually hit) than  Giant and Safeway. Bestway is cheaper for certain things, but that&#8217;s about it. I base this observation purely on stores that are accessible to those who do the vast majority of their shopping in Green Line country without the aid of a car.</p>
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